“It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.” — Clifford’s Credo
This is quite a nice article I blundered into from some group that call themselves SKP Freethinkers (“SKP” => “escapee”, buncha recreational vehicle nuts, but with very solid Freethinker / skeptic foundations).
This is as good a statement of Freethought principles as I have seen recently, and in fact, Freedom From Religion Foundation agree, asking to reprint it as a pamphlet. It is clear, concise and to the point – simple enough even for baboons to understand. It is well worth a read, and whilst doing so, bearing The Naked Emperor and “freethought”blogs.com in mind. Here’s the link and some choice quotes –
…No one can be a freethinker who demands conformity to a bible, creed, or messiah. To the freethinker, revelation is invalid and orthodoxy is no guarantee of truth…
…Freethinkers are naturalistic. Truth is the degree to which a statement corresponds with reality. Reality is limited to that which is directly perceivable through our natural senses or indirectly ascertained through the proper use of reason…
…Arguments based on faith, authority or ad hominem character attacks are unacceptable…
…An ethical choice is rarely a simple “right and wrong” decision. Most moral questions involve a conflict of values, requiring a careful use of reason. Obedient conformity to the dictates of another mind is supremely immoral and very dangerous…
…freethought is a philosophical, not a political, position. Freethought today embraces adherents of virtually all political persuasions, including capitalists, libertarians, socialists, communists, Republicans, Democrats, liberals and conservatives. There is no connection, for example, between atheism and communism…
…the only way we will have progress. A multiplicity of individuals thinking, free from restraints of orthodoxy, allows ideas to be tested, discarded or adopted. The totalitarianism of religious absolutes chokes progress…
Ouch. Reading through it, and it is a checklist of everything freefromthoughtblogs is not, and what PZ Myers does not represent. Only two real options here –
- SKP Freethinkers are stupid and don’t know shit. Therefore, by extension, so are FFRF.
- Or, that Myers and cohorts use “freethought” as a marketing gimmick, just like burger chains use “healthy and nutritious” – by lying through their teeth using mined quotes and deceptive data because the Baboon King knows his baboon minions are too stupid to know any better.
Where does the smart money go? Don’t really need to answer that for folks that aren’t part of the PZ Myers cult.
The above examples point to the precise types of failures in critical/clear/Freethinking that are endemic to everything associated to freefromthoughtblogs, and are pretty much the points that I have been raising here from the very start about FTB and associated baboon troops such as Skepchick et al.
I have been making the case that none of these folks that are involved are even close to being acceptable ambassadors for Freethought or skepticism or even atheism. That at every turn, as baboon-in-chief, Myers attempts to subvert these movements and inject his own brand of narrow and divisive ideology into them – a superficial and bigoted brand of brain poison that cannot sustain itself without a steady stream of scapegoats and public spectacle – and Myers demands absolute obedience and unquestioning submission to that ideology.
I further make the case that Myers and his hordes have far more in common with islamists, via their dogma and ability to spontaneously generate outrage out of the tiniest piece of trivia; and Calvinists via their deranged neo-puritanism – the insistence on bringing the fear back into sex and setting gender relations back decades.
This is the first reason for the palpable hatred that the baboons now express for me, and the obsessiveness of the new demonology they are inventing around me that has now spilled over a couple of dozen different threads all over the baboon board. It has very much become a monomania.
The second and more serious reason for their hatred is the actual subject matter of the blogs I present. What is contained in the pages here is allegedly the “proof” of my being a rape apologist, advocate of violence against women and far, far worse. These accusations bespatter freefromthoughblogs, though if you look, the curious thing you’ll note is the absolute lack of citation to any of their venom. But the evidence is all here, unaltered, nothing removed. This site is the basis for their catastrophism and hyperbole and demands that I should be forever removed from polite society. You can read it all here for yourself.
The sum of their rage expressed in my comments sections can be viewed here. What is evident in this compendium is that out of the hundreds of comments, there is not a single one that actually addresses any of the points I raise. Not one. Their attacks have been universally, to quote the SKP Freethinkers text, all “based on faith, authority or ad hominem character attacks”. Unfortunately, the baboons have a significant problem – I actually rely on Freethought principles, and I only relate observable facts that are independently verifiable, and I reference everything meticulously. Even if the baboons were capable of discussing anything in a civil manner, they would have nothing to say – because there is no substance for their defense. They behave consistently in the grubby, disgusting and inexcusable ways I point out, and they have no way to respond in a civilised manner. This is the real reason their hatred festers and gnaws at their bowels. They only have filth and viciousness to resort to – and as they demonstrate, that is in infinite supply. Criticism and laughter – it burns them so much.
This is the status quo. Quite unpleasant. I want to delve into the specifics, but that is a nauseating task as it entails browsing the baboon board itself, and I don’t feel up to the task right now, so it will have to wait until part 2. But it has reached a point of excess that can no longer be trivially ignored. While personal abuse, threat and slander don’t particularly bother me, the baboons themselves are now realising that. Direct harm and intimidation are having no effect – so now they are fishing for indirect routes, and their derangement is heading off into disturbing new territories. Their malice now has the possibility of causing harm to innocent third parties. The joke has now stopped being funny. I need to fortify myself for the rest. It needs to be thoroughly documented.
Related –
PZ Myers: The Smear Gets More Personal
It’s Been 36 Hours And The Swat Team Isn’t Here Yet
PZ Myers: Would You Buy A Used Car From This Man?
November 16, 2011 at 2:03 am
Looking forward to part 2.
By the way, the mention of baboons plus my roommate singing about them, has made this old kid’s song stuck in my brain:
November 16, 2011 at 3:47 am
I’m still inclined to think that the cynicism is unconscious. I suspect that they really do believe that Franc is what they say he is and must be treated much the same as the most rabid young earth creationists, i.e. don’t engage their arguments, just ridicule.
There is nothing left to do but keep supplying the rope and hold the spotlight on them. They are now so insular and self-referencing that there is no way through the defences. Unfortunately PZ’s reputation is sustaining him for the moment, but hopefully the truth will filter through to those that matter.
All this talk about private investigators and outing is probably just self-indulgent wankery. This kind of thing is usually about being seen to have the discussion just to reinforce the idea that the threat is realy serious. Not to say that it should be disregarded as there’s always the possibility of some nut acting on it. That Jason Thibeault character, for instance; batshit fucking crazy.
November 16, 2011 at 6:38 pm
It’s a Pavlovian response to key words they encounter; context doesn’t matter, nor does the message. It unconscious only to the extent that they’ve trained themselves to think that way.
Their salivation is the only proof they require to support the belief there is food in the bowl. And we stand before them with dumb amazement as they greedily lick the bowl clean of its imaginary contents. Point out there is nothing in the bowl and they snap and growl. Throw a rubber bone into the bowl and they go mad with delight at the delicious, marrowy tastiness that is further evidence food existing in the bowl.
November 17, 2011 at 10:51 am
perfect analogy, Stephen, well done.
November 17, 2011 at 11:07 am
Yes, I concur: An excellent analogy.
November 16, 2011 at 7:13 pm
@TFJ –
No, Myers knows full well what he is dealing with. He has been here, as he has to ERV. In both cases he was unable to provide any coherent response to discussion. So he did what any other mature, rational, Freethinking adult would do – had a hissy fit and stormed off back to the baboon board and commenced his campaign of long range slanders safely barricaded behind his iron curtain. Benson is the same – she knows she too is unable to provide any coherent response, so resorts to raw filth from a distance as well. The baboons themselves are too stupid to know any better, and too well trained to ever investigate anything for themselves, so perhaps they can have the excuse of ignorance.
Myers reputation is muck. Can you think of any satirist out there that has not had a dig? Jesus and Mo, SMBC, Mr Diety, the list goes on. Pretty much everyone has had a good laugh at The Naked Emperor’s shrivelled up little weenie. The science community in general is hardly any more flattering – as the saying goes, those that can do, those that can’t teach. Myers is no more a scientist of note than he is a top tier atheist. It’s all self-promoting flatus – the only positive press he has is his own or from his toadies.
Their nonsense talk of outing, cops and blacklists is just talk, no doubt about that. But it is talk inside an echo chamber, cocooned from external reality, reliant entirely on hearsay amplified by Chinese whispers – there is no citation or evidence for any of it. Just superstitious villagers scaring themselves to death with noises in the dark. But you have to remember that it is this kind of echo chamber ecosystem that rotted Valerie Solanas’ mind to the point that she decided trying to kill Warhol would be a good idea. And Manson’s Spahn Ranch was the same thing as well – a sealed system with imbeciles whispering nonsense to each other. There is no way to predict lightning when you are dealing with subnormals.
November 16, 2011 at 11:37 am
I find it odd that it is only since moving to ‘freethought’ that PZ Myers has seemingly lost the capacity for it.
November 16, 2011 at 1:50 pm
Actually, his descent into megalomaniac irrationality began some years ago, as far as I can determine.
November 16, 2011 at 2:17 pm
Agreed – it was just less blatant than now. The bogus PT Barnum theatrics have always been there, as has the bloodlust shredding of innocent scapegoats. This is a cult with a sacrificial altar on which the blood must never dry. Bread and circuses – its very Roman Empire style insanity.
November 16, 2011 at 7:37 pm
=== BABOON BOARD SPECIAL===
Shorter Spanc: I’m not crazy! My 70 previous obsessive-hatewank posts weren’t crazy! They’re the crazy ones! And here is the first in yet another series of obsessive posts to prove it!
Which isn’t to say you’re not amusing Spanc, but you really are a crazy little wanker
=== BABOON BOARD SPECIAL===
November 16, 2011 at 7:43 pm
Oh look it’s Michael. Mistress is still constipated and he’s bored again. Thanks for another example of trademarked FTB critique-with-substance. Really, have a huge gallery of that already.
November 16, 2011 at 11:04 pm
Franc, if I had stumbled upon your blog with no prior knowledge of the situation, I might have thought, “Surely this Hoggle fellow is exaggerating.” Having watched and, occasionally, taken part in this mess, I know that you are not. I’ve seen the hypocrisy of the Myers crowd, their hysteria, their cowardly attempts to discredit and intimidate others who dare disagree on even the slightest of issues, their eagerness to fabricate and their inability to produce anything real. The behavior of PZ Myers and his sycophants has been worse than that of any other internet group I’ve had the displeasure of dealing with, and that includes Stormfront. I’m simply amazed that “Pharyngula” hasn’t yet collapsed into a black hole of hypocrisy, irony and stupid.
November 16, 2011 at 11:58 pm
One of the baboons more nauseating new preoccupations is to somehow “warn my family”, because, y’know, they are in grave danger. How to threaten someone’s family without actually threatening. We are getting close to the bottom of the barrel. Trouble is, much of my family has direct experience under the despotisms of Mao and Stalin, and without prompting, they point out that the baboons are exactly the same kind of creatures. I even quoted my ma in one of my first articles expressing her disgust at them. Voltaire/stupidity/infinity – this would all probably kill him were he alive today.
You can help us document their idiocy here if you are so inclined –
http://phawrongula.wikia.com/wiki/Phawrongula_Wiki
And pass the URL around to others that are sick of this derangement.
November 17, 2011 at 3:13 am
this needs to be preserved:
http://skeptifem.blogspot.com/2011/11/pornography-and-respect.html
Not only is she refusing to produce evidence of her claims (SKEPTIfem),
she’s quoting I Blame The Patriarchy again! hahahahahaha
skeptifem said…
Lemme guess, john greg- if I don’t use a bunch of my time to demonstrate the obvious you will just have to keep on using porn (or possibly prostitutes), right? Why don’t you go justify your own habit through research? I am not the one wanking to the suffering of women, and I am god damned sick of posting a bunch of links just for dudes to ignore that shit and post the same crap over and over again. When I post evidence (like I did painstakingly in the past) some douchenozzle always shows up to be like “evidence?” anyway. You have google, fucking use it if you are so interested (the ones asking usually AREN’T though). I’m not your elementary school teacher or your mom. Like twisty says on I Blame The Patriarchy, “Nothing wastes my time like a dude!”
Thanks, everyone else.
November 15, 2011 7:32 AM
November 17, 2011 at 3:59 am
Thanks sacha.
I posted a rebuttal, as did, apparently, Justicar, but Skeptifem is arbitrary and often quite slow in getting around to allowing comments out of moderation. She’s one of those all-comments-are-moderated bloggers, so one can never have even the vaguest idea of what the true response to her posts are.
I was initially somewhat amazed at the number of and virulency of her implied accusations against me in that paragraph, i.e., that I make a habit of using porn and prostitutes for the specific purpose sexually enjoying the suffering of women. But then I remembered that she is a rabid Dworkinite and as such even though she claims to have a boyfriend she probably thinks fun and enjoyable consensual sex is rape.
November 17, 2011 at 5:48 am
She has nothing else, no proof, no brain, no respect, so she has to resort to comments like that. She is a child in the playground.
If you don’t know, I Blame The Patriarchy is a POE, I hope she continues to quote them often.
November 17, 2011 at 6:59 am
“If you don’t know, I Blame The Patriarchy is a POE, I hope she continues to quote them often.”
ROFL!
November 17, 2011 at 4:19 am
Oh, and as I said over at ERV:
I can’t keep up with this anymore. I do not recognize the world posited by Myers, Watson, McCreight, Benson, et al. I’m sure they would say the same about me (Pinker has something to say about that kind of disparate perspective, but I don’t remember what it is), but wow.
The blog posts about this latest kerfuffle, i.e., Abbie having utterly exploded the Internets by posting some critical comments about the blaghag is overwhelming. Apparently, Abbie, for saying a couple of unpleasant things about the blaghag and a couple of other saints of the feminist Internet is the one true devil evil.
But Myers, Benson, Watson, et al, are the true saints, saviours, and collective soul of the Internets because they make almost daily pilgrimages into the bowl of hostile, accusatory, and condemnatory posts libelling, condemning, insulting, and pissing on anyone with whom they disagree.
I just can’t keep up.
November 17, 2011 at 5:23 pm
Oh, wow. I totally missed this latest blow-up.
What’s the deal? Abbie’s comments were no worse than the daily vomit on the baboon board. Does it only count as bullying when you’re not the bully?
November 17, 2011 at 6:55 pm
Actually there is a pretty major difference – Abbie’s comments have substance and are verifiable.
November 17, 2011 at 3:39 am
@Franc:
The satirists saw through the bullshit quick enough, as you’d expect. It’s more the establishment types I was thinking of, like Novella, even Dawkins. PZ’s had an article on RD.net quite recently. It’s possible that Dawkins has not yet grasped the full extent of PZ’s meltdown.
I still think that Myers is a true believer himself. He just knows he’s right and is frustrated that he can’t quite find the smoking gun. He’s probably convinced that all your arguments are a smokescreen for your real agenda. He’ll distort and lie because he’s convinced that his distortions and lies are a more accurate picture of you than your own words.
November 17, 2011 at 4:50 am
Unlikely. He’s been alerted to it in the past.
November 17, 2011 at 5:42 am
Great post of his, I think it’s clear that he has a lack of respect for gender feminists. His response to Shaftgate is still by far the most spot on.
November 18, 2011 at 2:00 am
Astro, PZ could still have brushed that off back then as the gang getting a little zealous. To fully understand the depths he has sunk to since then would require lots of context and there are tens of thousands of comments involved. Does Dawkins have the time or interest to invest? To anybody not involved from the start the issues are not likely to be clear cut.
November 18, 2011 at 2:07 am
Calrification: Perhaps I should have said “for someone who has not followed from the start”.
November 17, 2011 at 1:04 pm
TFJ: I still think that Myers is a true believer himself.
Well, we shall never know. I think he is a believer in the same way that Kim Jong-il believes in communism. It is a convenient way to grab power and prestige. I don’t think Myers has any kind of baseline morality, even faux morality. He is just a populist whore for sale to anybody. In this case though, as I’ve said before, he has painted himself so far into a corner there is no “out” – so he will defend this dogmatic idiocy to his last dying gasp. He needs to be added to “amoral” in the dictionary as a clear example.