I no longer find it possible to differentiate the methodology of the catastrophist misandrist fairy tales and hate propaganda of Watson / Greta Christina et al. from that of radical islamists that have a thing about cartoons.
Both do backwards somersaults to tenuously manufacture crises out of irrelevant trivia; hyperbolise the hurt that they suffer (much like Chinese professional mourners); demonise dissenting voices that tell them to stop behaving like spoiled children; and enforce their own fascist brand of faux morality on the world whilst simultaneously demanding the right to spout whatever nonsense they please with absolute impunity.
Similarly, I see no difference between the embarrassing segments of the self labeled “liberal” and “humanist” left that throw around the accusation of islamophobia at any hint of criticism in lieu of rational discourse and the Watsonistas abuse of baseless accusations of misogyny for the same reason – mindless vacuity. As Harlan Ellison eloquently put it –
“Everybody has opinions: I have them, you have them. And we are all told from the moment we open our eyes, that everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. Well, that’s horsepuckey, of course. We are not entitled to our opinions; we are entitled to our informed opinions. Without research, without background, without understanding, it’s nothing. It’s just bibble-babble. It’s like a fart in a wind tunnel, folks.”
This “farting” consists of very straight faced assertions from –
- the islamists that the act of drawing a doodle of their “prophet” is somehow the equivalent of shitting in the qur’an, then burning it, nuking Mecca and exterminating every muslim on the planet; and
- the Watsonistas that using sarcasm as a rhetorical tool to make them look stupid is somehow equivalent to a call to arms to cut out the tongues of any of the female godless and chain them up doggy style in veal production pens, ass in the air, for any passing penis to violate as it sees fit.
This is how social catastrophism manifests itself when reality in no way corresponds to delusions fed by phobia, insecurity, self-loathing and lashings of good old fashioned puritanism. If it doesn’t exist, just make it up and yell a lot. You are bound to, sooner or later, get enough of a critical mass of credulous buffoons that believe you to the point that they too will begin replicating your meme. At that point, it becomes viral and mission accomplished. This is how ideological movements and personality cults operate – they have learned well from religion. Of course in the case of Watson, she takes carefully plotted extra steps to ensure meme propagation. Like keeping The Naked Emperor drunk at conferences and prick teasing him that his middle aged carcass may possibly still be worth fucking, or making targeted custom smut as in the case of Gollum. Compliance is assured. Boys are sooooo stoopid1.
It is interesting at this point to put the fembot slave moralist lunatics to one side and have a look at their evil twins, the islamists, and the thoughts that some real life, non-white2 Middle Eastern commentators have shared about them and how, in the west, they have successfully hijacked the voice and the stage from the majority of moderate muslims while they innocently slept. Two excellent articles were posted independently of each in early 2010, one from Arabic history scholar Raymond Ibrahim and the other from Indian born philosopher and jack-of-all-trades Kenan Malik. The articles, respectively –
What Did You Say About Muhammad?! [Pajamas Media]
How to become a real Muslim [Eurozine]
Both articles address the crisis that islamists have been able to create out of simple cartoons and are an excellent read in general. But they are especially enlightening for perspectives on islamism (not islam) devoid of Western Pollyannaism, from folks that are far more sober and intimate with the general muslim demographic than either the Runnymede Trust3 or the UNHRC. And the underlying thesis proposed is the same – that the current state of relations in Western societies between resident muslims and non-muslims are a disaster area and the blame can be layed squarely at the feet of “liberals” and “new humanists”4 for peddling islamophobia accusation and guilt like its a holy mission, paving the path to hell with their good intent5.
That the only rewards for new humanist meddling in the cartoon crisis, with their policies of accommodationism and appeasement (that have now also become the default Western position thanks to them), are ever more ludicrous cries of outrage and demands for exceptionalist treatment from the maniacs – especially demands that erode our very own rights – are completely ignored in the feel good orgy. But the proof is in the pudding – nothing good has come of it.
Ibrahim’s article begins by recalling last year’s South Park fiasco –
Which is more likely to elicit an irate Muslim response: 1) public cartoons of the Muslim prophet Muhammad, or 2) public proclamations that Muhammad was a bisexual, sometime transvestite and necrophile, who enjoyed sucking on the tongues of children, commanded a woman to “breastfeed” an adult man, and advised believers to drink his urine for salutary health?
Based on the recent South Park fiasco — where an animated episode depicting Muhammad in a bear suit sparked outrage among various Muslim groups, culminating with the usual death threats — the answer is clear: cartoons, once again, have proven to be the Muslim world’s premiere provocateur.
The second example is, of course, nothing new to those that don’t shirk from looking at islam’s more abhorrent aspects. The vilest writings on islam, bar none, are those that can be found within the qur’an itself and its approved ancillary texts – the hadith and sunnah and whatnot6. Want to justify anal sex with an infant that’s not a blood relative? It’s all in there somewhere7. This is all, as Ibrahim explains, fodder for Middle Eastern shock jock teevee –
The evangelical Arabic satellite station, al-Haya (Life TV), regularly takes the Muslim prophet to task, especially on two weekly programs: Hiwar al-Haq (Truth Talk), hosted by Coptic priest Fr. Zakaria Botros, and Su’al Jari’ (Daring Question), hosted by ex-Muslim Rashid. Both shows revolve around asking uncomfortable questions about Islam and its founder in an effort to prompt Muslims to reconsider the legitimacy of their faith… These broadcasts are viewed by millions of Arabic-speaking Muslims around the world.
Surprisingly, neither of these gentlemen have been murdered to date. Ibrahim speculates as to why –
Needless to say, Life TV’s hosts — especially the flamboyant Fr. Zakaria — are hated by Muslims around the world. But to the careful observer, the outrage appears to be subsiding, ostensibly replaced by apathy — that is, the default strategy when threats and displays of indignation fail […]
By constantly buckling in to the slightest Muslim displeasure — whether by altering films, removing museum art, or canceling book launches — the West has perpetuated a vicious cycle wherein Muslim sensitivities are ever heightened and outraged at the slightest slight, and Western freedoms of expression are correspondingly diminished and trampled upon. What’s worse, such self-imposed censorship falls right into the hands of homegrown Islamists actively working to subvert Western civilization from within.
Conversely, by holding fast to onetime Western principles of free speech and open dialogue, Life TV has conditioned its Muslim viewers to accept that exposure and criticism of their prophet is here to stay. As Fr. Zakaria often points out, every religious figure is open to criticism: so why should Muhammad be sacrosanct? […]
Of course, one need not agree with Life TV’s tactics or evangelical mission to appreciate the lesson it imparts: Muslim outrage — as with all human outrage — is predicated on how well it is tolerated. Continuously appeased, it becomes engorged and insistent on more concessions; ignored, it deflates and, ashamed of itself, withers away.
Why are the simplest things always the hardest to grasp? Only lazy and stupid parents respond to tantrum throwing children by immediately satisfying every demand. This is the expedient, and short term solution, and only really a solution until the next hissy fit is initiated on a whim. Parents that accept responsibility and actually do real parenting deal with it all rather differently – the solution is not to defer the tantrum for another day, but to teach the child that tantrums are of benefit to no one in the real world, especially not the child. This is precisely the message that Ibrahim is conveying to our collective, new humanist driven failure in the West.
Malik reiterates much of Ibrahim, but is far more penetrating with his overall analysis in that not only has western new humanist accommodationism failed us all, it has also undermined the position of moderate islam itself and created an environment of now open hostility in the process.
Malik firstly points out that the strict prohibition on pictorial depictions of Muhammed, that the islamists drill into is, are a relatively modern innovation –
Even a tradition as seemingly deeply set and unyielding as the one at the heart of the controversy over the Danish cartoons – the prohibition on the pictorial representation of the Prophet Mohammed – is in truth neither deeply set nor unyielding. Far from Islam having always forbidden representations of the Prophet, it was common to portray him until comparatively recently. The prohibition against such depictions only emerged in the 17th century. Even over the past 400 years, a number of Islamic, especially Shiite, traditions have accepted the pictorial representation of Muhammed […]
Even today, few Muslims have a problem in seeing the Prophet’s face. Shortly after Jyllands Posten published the cartoons, the Egyptian newspaper Al Fagr reprinted them. They were accompanied by a critical commentary, but Al Fagr did not think it necessary to blank out Mohammad’s face, and faced no opprobrium for not doing so. Egypt’s religious and political authorities, even as they were demanding an apology from the Danish Prime Minister, raised no objections to Al Fagr’s full frontal photos.
So, if there is no universal prohibition to the depiction of Mohammad, why were Muslims universally appalled by the caricatures? They weren’t. And those that were, were driven by political zeal rather than theological fervour.
An interesting historical archive of pictorial depictions can be viewed here. Despite the mythology of the events that transpired on the publication of the Jyllands-Posten cartoons, reality painted a much different picture –
The publications of the cartoons in September 2005 caused no immediate reaction, even in Denmark. Only when journalists, disappointed by the lack of controversy, contacted a number of imams for their response, did Islamists begin to recognize the opportunity provided not just by the caricatures themselves but also by the sensitivity of Danish society to their publication.
Among the first contacted was the controversial cleric Ahmed Abu Laban, infamous for his support for Osama bin Laden and the 9/11 attacks. He seized upon the cartoons to transform himself into a spokesman for Denmark’s Muslims. Yet however hard he pushed, he initially found it difficult to provoke major outrage in Denmark or abroad. It took more than four months of often hysterical campaigning, and considerable arm-twisting by Saudi diplomats, to create a major controversy. At the end of January 2006, Saudi Arabia recalled its ambassador from Denmark and launched a consumer boycott of Danish goods. In response a swathe of European newspapers republished the cartoons in “solidarity” with Jyllands-Posten.
It was only now that the issue became more than a minor diplomatic kerfuffle. There were demonstrations and riots in India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Iran, Nigeria, Palestine, Afghanistan and elsewhere. Danish embassies in Damascus, Beirut and Teheran were torched. But, as Jytte Klausen has observed, these protests “were not caused by the cartoons, but were part of conflicts in pre-existing hot spots” such as northern Nigeria, where there exists an effective civil war between Muslim salafists and Christians. The violence surrounding the cartoon conflict, Klausen suggests, has been “misreported” as expressions of spontaneous violence from Muslims “confronted with bad pictures”. That, she insists, “is absolutely not the case”. Rather “these images have been exploited by political groups in the pre-existing conflict over Islam.”
Why did journalists contact Abu Laban in the first place? The Danish press described him as a “spiritual leader”. He was in fact a mechanical engineer by trade, and an Islamist by inclination. His Islamic Society of Denmark was closely linked to the Muslim Brotherhood but had little support among Danish Muslims. Out of a population of 180 000 Danish Muslims, fewer than a thousand attended the Society’s Friday prayers.
This was, in every respect, a manufactured crisis. It should be noted Abu Laban has an extensive resume, including joy at 9/11. And where it all goes horribly wrong is, that with the enthusiastic, eager to please and utterly brainless endorsement of Euro-humanists, Laban was somehow promoted to be the representative voice of European muslims, when he was in fact no such thing and possibly the most unrepresentative fringe maniac out there –
For western liberals have come to see figures like Abu Laban as the true, authentic voice of Islam. The Danish MP Naser Khader tells of a conversation with Tøger Seidenfaden, editor of Politiken, a leftwing newspaper highly critical of the caricatures. “He said to me that the cartoons insulted all Muslims”, Khader recalls. “I said I was not insulted. He said, ‘But you’re not a real Muslim’.”
In liberal eyes, in other words, to be a real Muslim is to find the cartoons offensive. Once Muslim authenticity is so defined, then only a figure such as Abu Laban can be seen as a true Muslim voice. The Danish cartoons, as Jytte Klausen observed, “have become not just a tool for extremism but also created a soap opera in the West about what Muslims ‘do’ with respect to pictures”. Or, as Naser Khader has put it, “What I find really offensive is that journalists and politicians see the fundamentalists as the real Muslims.” The myths about the Danish cartoons – that all Muslims hated the cartoons and that it was a theological conflict – helped turn Abu Laban into an authentic voice of Islam. At the same time, Abu Laban’s views seemed to confirm the myths about the Danish cartoons.
In other words, with the very best of intentions, the pseudo-liberal/humanist Mandarins in the courts of the European Union managed to not only mis- and dis-inform their politicians and citizens, they also legitimised and empowered lunatics like Laban and gave them a carte blanche monopoly to the public stage to spout their toxic derangement, whilst at the same time pulling the rug out from underneath the geniune islamic community representatives who’s views reflected moderation and sanity. Well done guys.
Malik then proceeds to rub our noses in it by reminding us that virtually an identical drama was played out over 20 years ago with Salman Rushdie’s novel The Satanic Verses – and what did we learn form the experience? Absolutely nothing. Well, that’s not true. We learned that new humanism’s catchcry is populism and expediency – not statecraft or actual liberal democracy. They sold out on our liberties and our principles then, and they have just done it all over again. The learning curve is a flat line. As Malik summarises this attitude of accommodationism and appeasement –
In the post-Rushdie world, liberals have effectively internalized the fatwa.
What we are witnessing is a self-destructive closed feedback loop. The loudest and most deranged islamist voices have been seized on by media organisations – because that’s what they do, feed on spectacle that they think fuels consumer interest. This noise has in turn been mistaken as representative sentiment by well meaning new humanist political courtiers, who proceed to do somersaults in their shoes to appease the islamists. This in turn gives the islamists a bogus legitimacy and a larger stage from which to launch even stupider accusations and demands, and so on, in a downward spiral in a finite ecosystem. The idiocy cannot sustain itself forever – there are limits and sooner or later, something will have to give. There are only 3 possible outcomes here –
- Full islamisation of Europe, including sharia (unlikely). And when things reach that point, as it does all over the Middle East, islamist demands do not cease. They merely fragment into sub-islamist fragments and continue the stupidity with each other.
- New humanists get a dose of reality and wake up to themselves (even less likely).
- Or, most likely, you get backlash which is potentially even nastier.
The last is indeed already happening. Geert Wilders, the new humanist’s new whipping boy, is surging ahead in popularity and political influence on the back of all this. That the new humanists show no inhibitions at publicly hating and denouncing him is no surprise. It is perfectly in keeping with the Nietzschean master/slave dynamic – the perceived “weak” hive mentality of the islamists is accepted as “good” and the “strong” individualist, autonomous defense of Euro-man by Wilders is accepted as intrinsically “evil”. Wilders must be exterminated “for the greater good”.
The true perversity of personality cult leaders like Wilders arising is not that they exist, but why they exist. With typical buck passing, new humanists point the finger and lay the blame at apparently pre-existing racist attitudes and residual extreme right white supremacist elements always present just beneath the surface of otherwise civilised and enlightened Europe, and that in fact, it is these elements and their islamophobia that are at the root of all the problems to begin with.
What a pile of bollocks.
This cop out is disingenuous to the point of absurdity. Wilders is Dutch.The Netherlands have historically paved the way for social liberalism and led the world by example in rights for women, gays and sensible drug, sex and censorship policy. To label the entire Dutch people as closet white power Nazis is beyond merely stupid, it’s as vilely insulting as you can get.
Wilders is what you get when you take quiet, tolerant and peaceful people such as the Dutch and repeatedly begin accusing them of being racist and intolerant. And when they begin to express unease at their artists being murdered and see crimes long unseen, such as gay bashing, become serious issues all over again, you proceed to escalate your accusations of bigotry. When you so relentlessly criminalise entire populations of crimes of which they are entirely innocent, and you do it on a world stage and with loudspeakers day in and day out, the question becomes more how could a politician like Wilders not arise?
Wilders is not so much a consequence of islamist idiocy, but of the new humanist policies of appeasement and accommodationism at any cost. He is 110% their baby – an ugly reality new humanists would rather drown kittens than admit.
Hrrrm, does any of the above look familiar Becky? Are there any lessons we can learn from it Becky?
Strip away the context from everything above and leave the skeleton of the methodology and strategy and you have an engineering blueprint for the entire Watsonista campaign8 – a campaign who’s origins predate Elevatorgate by a several years.
The gender feminists Satanic Verses episode began way back ’80s and ’90s with the original date rape crusades – fuel for a mass hysteria that empowered the revenge fantasies of the embittered to get their pound of flesh from an unfair (male) planet with scant regard to conscience or consequence, and without any hurtful requirements for evidence or plausibility.
The collateral damage from the resulting pogroms was justified by an endless stream of literature and women’s studies doctoral theses. That untold numbers young men, many just boys, had their lives destroyed by little more than hearsay was irrelevant, as was the trivialisation of women that had actually been victims of violent assault. Thanks to all of this, having your boobies squeezed at a drunken frat party was now the equivalent on the suffering scale to being a Richard Ramirez victim. Then too, as now, some female voices, such as Katie Roiphe and Christina Hoff Sommers, spoke out against the insanity, and then as now, they too were dismissed as gender traitors and collaborators. It was all largely too little and too late anyway.
This was all labeled as “progressive” in the correct political circles.
This madness eventually subsided much to everyone’s relief, but the learning curve remained a flat line, with nothing really in place to prevent this idiocy from resurrecting itself. As it now has, from it’s beginnings several years ago when Greta Christina / Watson first concocted atheist misogyny and made it their mission in life, to the Skepchick and acolyte blogger campaign to forever poison google with the term which followed, culminating in the recent conference histrionics in Ireland…
Elevatorgate has now become the gender feminist version of the Jyllands-Posten cartoons. It has moved beyond merely theoretical misandrist accusation by directing focus to a semi-tangible, yet strangely uncorroborated, allegedly real life event which through relentless sermonising has now become a quasi-religious icon. Like the J-P cartoons, this iconography provides an excellent focal point for all of the accumulated hatred, and a convenient marshaling point from which to launch an all out assault on the remaining actual Freethinkers within the godless and skeptic communities, regardless of sex or demographic, who refuse to drink the gender feminist Kool-aid.
And the bit player framework is all there, ready and compliant. The Naked Emperor, and his yellow journalism baboon board, are there to propagandise and legitimise the Watsonistas in true tabloid style as the bogus “representative” voice of the community, and confuse the ambivalent into believing it. The Pollyanna new humanists are filled by the CFI, and they subsidise the operation and feed it oxygen by providing the public stage and audience. The Runnymede Trust’s – the endless stream of bloggers hurling accusations of misogynist, sexist, rape apologist, gender traitor or collaborator in lieu of islamophobia (depending on whether you have dangly genitals or not) – prime noise-mongers now also cohabiting with the Baboon King. Women are being told they are “not real feminists” for not disintegrating into indignant hysteria, just like Naser Khader was told he was “not a real muslim” for not being offended by cartoons. And of course there’s the Wilders – Dawkins to begin with, but now increasingly dissidents like myself who refuse to see the lollipop and lipstick fascism as anything less than it is – fascism.
And nowhere in sight are there any actual skeptics – not only, as the Randi forums have pointed out, is there not a drop of evidence to confirm that the elevator guy was even a conference attendee, there is nothing to indicate the whole incident wasn’t simply made up. Just blind faith – it is real. Becky said so. Couldn’t be more cult-like if they tried.
This has become a closed loop feedback system. And as with its islamist / new humanist twin in Europe, it cannot sustain itself for ever – there are no compromises available here. The Watsonistas depend entirely on spectacle and scapegoating to maintain their momentum – and that requires a steady stream of victims for the altar. Should they ever succeed in their lunatic demands and drive the remaining genuine Freethinkers away from the community, they will soon enough turn on each other – just as the islamists have in much of Africa and the various -stans. There is no equilibrium in their world. There will always be new outrage and new hatred.
The only other alternative is to learn from the lessons Ibrahim and Malik have given us – refuse to participate in this idiotic jihad any more. Stop feeding the maniacs*. Starve them of the attention they crave, drive them back to the back-room ideological ghettos where they can rant at each other as much as they please and leave the real world in peace. As Malik concludes in his article –
What we can do is refuse to create a culture that emboldens such people by accepting their voices as somehow legitimate.
All these well-intentioned nitwits that are assisting in maintaining this stupidity need to stop, think and acknowledge that, just as ordinary humble christians are the ones most harmed by the idiot fringes of Dominionist maniacs, so too the women within the godless and skeptick communities are the ones most damaged by the Watsonistas. There are more women leaving these communities now than any genuine misogynist conspiracy could ever hope to drive away. The basic facts are that atheism is misogynistic and racist – exclusively because of white, privileged Watsonistas.
* – Possibly the most depressing development recently is learning that Steven Novella too seems to be thoroughly owned by the Watsonistas. Many folks really did hope he had enough integrity and intellect to see through the bullshit. Evidently not. Whether it’s willful ignorance or active complicity is irrelevant. The result is the same.
1 – No, not even with Gaddafi’s dick to preempt the inevitable “your jealous” or “you are a loser because you’re not getting any” jibes that always follow from the Myers emulating baboons. Beauty may be skin deep, but Watson style ugly oozes from deep within. Rather step in warm dog shit with bare feet.
2 – This is important to note considering the Watsonista idiocy is specifically between white fembots and white males, a distinction they themselves repeat ad nauseam.
3 – Generally accepted to have created the term “islamophobia”, but if not, certainly are responsible for entrenching it in the Western guilt vocabulary.
4 – Quotation marks are there because these folks are pseudos; they are bastardised versions of both. Prime examples are folks like new humanism’s popstar, Harvard’s “Secular Chaplain” Greg Epstein who lectures us about they evils of draw muhammed day.
5 – I am always bothered by the “nobility” of this kind of idiot activism. Want to show your “humanism”? Go buy a homeless kid a sandwich instead of wasting your time with linguistic nit picking. Do something real. This kind of nonsense always seems more like a perverse form of exhibitionism – pointless displays designed more to alleviate personal guilt and put on a peacock display of “goodness” for others than to actually try and improve the world.
6 – Much like gender feminism with Dworkin, MacKinnon and Solanas.
7 – Though the credibility of the resources vary, the texts are pretty much a convenience store to justify any kind of barbarity, and if you can’t find it yourself, there are plenty of holy men that are experts at both the texts and updating interpretations to suit needs. This is one example of such citation –
http://www.islamreview.com/articles/PEDOPHILIA_IN_ISLAM.shtml
Though a page maintained by christians, it does draw on original text material. It also has to be noted that the christian bible isn’t a whole lot better – just, thankfully, most christians no longer abuse the literalism to extent that some pockets of muslims still do.
8 – Right down to trivial little details too, as Trevor Boeckmann at UNI Freethinkers and Inquirers notes. Watson placed an immediate priority post-Elevatorgate on exploiting her public speaking engagements to promote her own hate propaganda and dropped all concerns for the NYC same-sex marriage issues that needed public support at the time like a soiled diaper. Fags don’t really matter to slave morality feminists any more than to islamophobia obsessed new humanists.
September 22, 2011 at 12:33 am
“Elevatorgate has now become the gender feminist version of the Jyllands-Posten cartoons.”
I find your take on the incident to be amusing. Most the commentary I’ve read depicts the incident as regrettable, overly dramatic and embarrassing. It seems everyone who was involved is trying to put it behind them as an error, except you. If not for your need to cling to the incident as a talisman justifying your hatred of Watson, it would already be fading from memory.
September 22, 2011 at 12:35 am
I see. You’re another toilet slave.
September 22, 2011 at 2:06 am
Do you honestly think cracks like that earn you any respect, or are you a closeted Watson fan trying to make her critics look like a gaggle of juvenile, misogynistic 12 year olds?
Seriously, how old are you?
September 22, 2011 at 2:11 am
I bet you have a huge anime library too.
September 22, 2011 at 2:29 am
Now it all becomes clear.
I’m not dealing with adults, but children exploiting the fact that “On the Internet no one knows that you’re a dog.” You honestly think grade school insults constitute a valid way of expressing your views. The mere fact that I’m here, posting a reply to your misogynistic drivel, is all the victory you need. You successfully fooled me into replying as if your comments deserved a modicum of respect or the courtesy of discussion.
September 22, 2011 at 2:37 am
The rules are simple – if you have something coherent to say, you will get a coherent response. You only get the level of respect you indicate you deserve. If you want to behave like a mindless Watsonista toilet slave/drone, then that’s how you will be treated. You all waltz in here like princesses, hurling the same tired abuse your baboon overlord taught you, then get hissy when your monstrous intellects don’t get the admiration you feel it is entitled to (one of your favourite words no doubt, “entitled”). Really, you’re in no position to frown down your nose at me. Have something to say, say it. Otherwise move along back to your baboon board where everyone knows what’s expected of them.
September 22, 2011 at 11:53 am
Clarification for those that think the above is unwarranted –
This was the last batch of Michael’s comments here that I read, and I was responding to the whole lot of them. The rest can be found by searching and are just the stock standard Pharyngudrone monkey-see-monkey-do small penis and “you can’t get laid” jibes.
September 22, 2011 at 12:03 pm
“I see. You’re another toilet slave.”
… or he’s a monkey that wandered out of the cage.
Hey Matt M, since when has it been wrong for men to hit on women or women to hit on men? It’s been going on for a long time, and you wouldn’t be here if that wasn’t the case.
If I would have given up the first time my wife said no when I asked her out for a date, we wouldn’t be happily married and have a bunch of kids.
I’m sorry you might remain a bachelor the rest of your life if a women saying no to you once made you put your tail between your legs and run away.
It’s a game women play. Who the hell wants to be married to a loser that gives up on his first attempt?
A woman almost _must_ say no the first few times if she is to be sure the guy is really interested in her or just interested in her for one night.
Grow up… and grow a pair.
September 22, 2011 at 3:54 am
Wrong-o Matthew (aka internet lawyer). Watson, McCreight, PZ, and Greta are at their height of popularity. You see them popping up everywhere. If the lunacy is not ended now it will run on for years. I fear it is too late already. I have been arguing against the meme that “atheism is plagued by sexism” for over a year now. I regularly get verbally abused and banned for simply stating my opinion (which is shared by many others). Feminists have hijacked the secular/freethought movement in America and turned it into a political correctness fembot love-fest.
I am a 50 year old life-long atheist, with two teenaged daughter and a wife of 26 years. Still, just for making claims that atheism is not a sexist haven, I have been called a rapist, misogynist, sexist, wife beater (and then after the pleasure I get banned). Nazis and Brown shirts work this way. So much for freethought.
September 22, 2011 at 10:50 am
Free thought the monkey board is not. Lots of pricks that like agreeing with themselves over there.
When I first started reading about Elevator Coffee Gate, I was wondering what the big deal was. I thought someone had gotten raped or something.
And then when I found out that someone was complaining that someone else asked her to his room for coffee, I rolled my eyes.
And then when the feminists websites tried to convey they idea that asking someone up for coffee really meant sex, I rolled my eyes again; I had never heard such BS before. This incident (if it even happed) was a total non-event.
Anyhow, long story even longer, no-way, no-how, nice, non-atheist folks are going to go to the monkey board, read the comments and think, “I want to be just like them.”
Nope. For the most part their views on atheism are just going to be confirmed: “Who the hell wants to be associated with that shit?”
It’s a shame really, since I imagine there are a lot of church goers that would drop religion if they didn’t have to become an ejaculating, godless, liberal, feminist in order to do so.
September 22, 2011 at 11:17 am
ECG: I have said this on more than one occasion – PZ Myers is to theists what Michael Moore is to Republicans / Teabaggers: A gift. A dream come true. A confirmation bias orgasm.
These clowns do more to bolster the arguments of those they despise than any apparent good they may achieve for their own side. They are both clowns that cause infinitely more harm than good.
September 22, 2011 at 5:23 pm
Sexism, if anything, is reversed in my/our local atheist meetings.
There are often more females than males.
The only case of violent sexual assault (of which I am aware) during or after a meeting was by a female upon a male.
The Watsonistas would be pushing shit-up-hill trying to garner recruits to their new cult here in Australia. They’d be told in no uncertain terms to “fuck off” by our remarkably robust women members!
September 23, 2011 at 11:03 am
PZ Myers is to theists what Michael Moore is to Republicans / Teabaggers: A gift.
Trufax!
Should one be ashamed at one’s admiration of someone… lust even??? PZ, if one wants to fuck your mouth, is that person an amoral person? Is lust for your mouth disrespectful?
Wondering???
September 22, 2011 at 7:46 am
Mathew the Revisionist said:
“Most the commentary I’ve read depicts the incident as regrettable, overly dramatic and embarrassing.”
Then you have either read only a small portion, and probably from only one side, of the many varied opinions and commentary on the matter … or you are deluding yourself through some sort of self-confirmation bias thingy.
“It seems everyone who was involved is trying to put it behind them as an error, except you.”
Watson has never once come even passingly close to acknowledging that anything she has done regarding Stef McGraw, or the Elevatorgate fiasco, or any related events as being anything other than absolutely right and correct. The Watsonistas are trying to put it behind them because they don’t like the negative exposure, nor, and more importantly, the disagreement and dissent.
“If not for your need to cling to the incident as a talisman justifying your hatred of Watson, it would already be fading from memory.”
Or, put another way, If not for our unwillingness to accept the attempts at historical revision, intentional diostortion of fact, and the avoidance of serious dialogue and discussion of unethical behaviour … it would already be fading from memory.
September 22, 2011 at 2:41 am
Point well missed, Matthew Miller. Elevatorgate was not a contextless event. It was a manifestation of an ideolgical and illiberal campaign that has been going on for years in parts of the Atheist community, an attempt to tie atheism to a narrow political viewpoint and cast out dissenters. Watson blew her cover and that forced people to confront the issue, which has resulted in a schism, largely perpetuated by the Watsonistas and their allies attempts to marginalise and demonise anyone who doesn’t buy their narrative wholesale. This is the antithesis of a reason and skepticism. Myers and his ilk are now actively engaged in an effort to cast his critics as the lunatic fringe of Atheism.
September 22, 2011 at 10:27 am
Matthew. You are not engaging in discussion or rational thought in your post. Just telling folks to shut up and move on. There is nothing there. The only one who can possibly be thought of as putting it behind them is Dawkins — and that is a shame. He’s not afraid of Islam but he is afraid of the gender feminist religion. I have a hard time finding any blogs that present your point of view (regrettable, embarrassing, etc.). The majority of hatred and ad hominem attacks have come from PZ, Ophelia, and friends. While I am not always found of Franc’s replies his work is cogent and engaging. Too bad the freethought community doesn’t feel the same. Franc is true freethought.
September 22, 2011 at 10:34 am
Along similar lines, what I find most bemusing is the resemblance of the “male privilege” meme to a conspiracy theory.
Anyone who has spent any time dealing with conspiracy theorists will observe that there is no such thing as “evidence against the conspiracy”; any evidence against the conspiracy is actually just an example of the cover-up.
Likewise, we are told by the new new atheists that anybody who can’t see their privilege is actually an example of someone who is seeing things “through the filter of their privilege”. Seriously. WTF?
It really has me stumped that not one of the pre-eminent skeptics in the community has called the Watsonistas out on this unfalsifiability. Have they all drunk the kool-aid, or are they keeping their mouths shut to avoid the potential fallout of upsetting Rebecca and her minions?
September 22, 2011 at 1:06 pm
You know Franc, you’re starting to sound like The Naked Emperor.
September 22, 2011 at 1:19 pm
David, I no longer make any pretense of even beginning to comprehend what your actual shtick is. I don’t think you have one – you’re like some ’90s retro-troll from Usenet. Contrarian not for the sake of highlighting some point, but just to provoke a reaction and see your handle magically replicate across your screen. You exhibit the same behaviour on ScienceBlogs. Certainly aping a comment I left there 20 minutes ago here for no discernible reason is indicative of that.
September 22, 2011 at 9:19 pm
I’m starting to suspect that DB’s heavily into humiliation as a fetish, and that he’s trying to goad us all into giving him some ‘cuckolding’.
September 22, 2011 at 10:13 pm
David has no substance, judging by all I’ve read from him. I personally even apologized to him for my past trigger-ready reactions to his posts, only to see that I was quite right about his lunacy all along.
He might be a minor disturbance, but in effect he is the perfect mirror-image of what Myers et all are to the Atheist cause. How easy for the Watsonitas to point to one of his posts and say “see? Sexist pigs, the lot of them”.
I am sure he is a smart, educated fellow, but his paranoic rants about “evil feminists” and such really doesn’t help the discussion in any way.
Mind you, I am not myself that usefull, but at least I try to keep up and not live in decades-old philosophical memes.
September 23, 2011 at 2:25 am
The rules are simple – if you have something coherent to say, you will get a coherent response. You only get the level of respect you indicate you deserve.
September 23, 2011 at 2:33 am
Ok, so now we’re reduced to the parrot talk game. Thanks for removing any final doubts David.
September 22, 2011 at 5:03 pm
Pedant warning!
Should read: radical islamists who have a thing about cartoons.
September 22, 2011 at 5:29 pm
I shall close with a positive remark:
You are very perceptive to compare this Elevator Guy non-event with the Muhammed cartoons non-event.
I had not thought of it in that way, but upon reflection, you are quite correct.
The two incidents are exactly comparable, in every single manner!
Imam Rebecca pronounces a fatwa against Dawkin’s collected works. It all makes sense now!
Thank you, sir.
September 22, 2011 at 10:48 pm
Can someone explain to me how she got “popular?” Because she has a website and puts out youtube videos? or does she have an advanced degree in anything? has she written a best selling book I’m not aware of?
These are actual questions I’ve always had… not trying to be sarcastic, just wondering what her accomplishments are and what makes her an expert in the sceptic field.
(MKG, her rant/protest against Dawkins, the rich white guy, and his books was bizzare. A bit of knee-jerk stupidity perhaps. The whole Dawkins beatdown on the monkey board shows the fullout idiocy over there.)
September 22, 2011 at 11:25 pm
Truth be told, NO ONE knows anything much about Becky, other than she is an upper middle class white chick who has never really wanted for , or had to work, for anything. Everything has pretty much been presented to the princess on a silver platter. This is what makes her whining about “privilege” so utterly grating. There is some info collated here –
https://greylining.wordpress.com/2011/08/11/cficsiskepchick-theory-of-courtiers/
No one actually seems to know *what* it was precisely she studied. But it does not appear to be of any more value than a basic college certification, the kind you can order online anyway.
How she got here is because she is a master manipulator. Getting into Sid Rodrigues’ (skeptics in the pub UK) pants gave her leg up, she began sucking up to the name celebrites – Randi, Plait, The Naked One, Dawkins (who she is now spitting on), Novella etc.Once they were owned, it was easy to get them to spam the Skepchick industries brand and insinuate herself into CFI. That’s pretty much where we are today. A dumb numb cunt with no talents, using (extremely limited) sex appeal to prick tease idiots to do her will. This is about as polite a description as anyone not part of her immediate cabal can ever give. And she whines about sexism and “objectification” to boot. Complete ethical, moral and intellectual destitute. This is the best guess I can make, given the complete vacuum of information about any real justification out there. There is simply nothing. Just an opportunist parasite.
September 23, 2011 at 12:30 am
Thanks Franc for your analysis.
You have good, in-depth write-ups on this board.
Keep ’em coming.
September 23, 2011 at 12:43 am
You’re more than welcome. This is what *really* gets me. Complete and utter absence of information *about* Watson, and the autopilot hook-line-and-sinker swallowing of everything she says as just indisputable fact by a community of SKEPTICS. Not only has nothing been ever verified about EG, there is nothing of any kind to qualify her to represent the movement (beyond an endless well of bullshit) and no one shows even the slightest interest. I mean, just to know *what* it was she studied (if she did at all) for a start. Bunch of credulous buffoons. To top all of this of, she has clearly displayed her criminal nature for all to see, and still no one is interested. Secularism is a farce. This is the power of privileged white pussy.
September 23, 2011 at 12:59 am
Yeah… I’m skeptical. She seems to be using the skeptic scene to push an ultra insane version of feminism that has the one goal of eliminating men from the planet.
To them, the sooner human cloning becomes standard operating procedure and allows for a viable she-species, the better for their twisted vision of the future.
Thankfully, the world still contains a lot of normal women.
September 23, 2011 at 1:14 am
You flatter them by overestimating their competence and intellect. They are just run of the mill fascists that get wide-ons from the idea of mindless, indiscriminate abuse of arbitrary and consequence free authority.
September 24, 2011 at 1:53 am
In the interests of fairness, it needs to be noted that Watson is no more of a parasite than the Baboon King. Myers similarly somehow insinuated himself into Dawkins social space in order to make a name for himself. Now that Dawkins has done his bit and given Myers the leg up he needed, Dawkins is no longer necessary, so Myers is quite happy to spit on him in order to ingratiate himself to the Watsonistas – that’s where he seems to think the populist advantage now lies. There is no honour amongst whores (not the good honest whores that sell sex for money, the whore whores that trade principles for advantage)
September 24, 2011 at 10:37 am
IF there are any sceptic conferences in the future where Dawkins, The Princess, and The Emperor are all scheduled to speak, I can’t imagine there won’t be a little tension.
If I was Dawkins, the first question out of my mouth after an invite would be, “Who else is going to be speaking?”
September 25, 2011 at 3:59 am
…she is an upper middle class white chick who has never really wanted for , or had to work, for anything. Everything has pretty much been presented to the princess on a silver platter.
I love that description. It basically sums up victim feminists in general, with a few minor variations.
There are some token “women of color”, also mostly from wealthy families. Their parents may have had to struggle to climb the ladder but had already “moved on up” by the time the princesses were born. They are willing to sell out less fortunate men of their races for feminist ideals, but still reserve the right to be outraged when white feminists don’t do enough to defer to their special victim status.
Then there are women (and a few men) who come from modest backgrounds but manage to become authors, professors of women’s studies, or some such thing (sometimes even a legitimate academic subject, as in PZ’s case) They see that there is money and prestige in pandering to rich girls’ sense of entitlement. Of course, there is also the hope for sexual conquest and a woman who gets into victim feminism to get laid by other women is practically guaranteed success. Men who suck up to victim feminists rarely get sexually rewarded but there are a few (like Hugo Schwyzer) who can manage to do it by talking like sensitive new age wimps while acting like alpha bad boys. Not too many can pull that off, though, and most become what you call toilet slaves. They never get the pussy they seek, but hope springs eternal that if they debase themselves and condemn their fellow men enough, it will someday pay off. And so the wheel keeps turning.
September 25, 2011 at 11:45 am
Meadester: There are some token “women of color”
Yeah, Hirsi Ali. Now there is a problem for the fembots. As I pointed out in this post, Hirsi Ali called them out in a very big way at a talk at U. Wisconsin – “[feminism is] a force that protects only white women.” And? Nothing. Mute silence. I am actually staggered that this talk is not ever mentioned anywhere by anyone, but especially not by white chicks. I found it on a Danish news site, and the only associated discussions on it have been on decidedly non-white blogs and forums. It is not hearsay either, as there is video of the entire talk everywhere.
They see that there is money and prestige in pandering to rich girls’ sense of entitlement.
“The misandrist blog industry” – that infuriates them. Why? Because it is accurate and there is no answer to it. It is every bit an industrial mis-/dis- information propaganda mill as Fox News. Myers is their Glenn Beck. Skeptifem is their Ann Coulter. It is an industrial production line of hate bullshit. It is an absolutely accurate description. The fembots also precisely mirror the inner/outer party structures of the former Soviet Union and Mao’s China – complete with ideological witch hunts. I hate the term “political correctness” as it invariably gets garbled in people’s heads. Ted “Unabomber” Kaczynski has a far more appropriate term – “over-socialisation”. Reducing society to an insect hive collective with set in concrete, non-negotiable role structures – Queen bees on top of course. It is very much a retrograde nonsense modeled on theocracy – it is both nihilist and ultimately, self-destructive, and depends entirely on spectacle and scapegoating for sustenance. It is beyond simple evil. It is a social cancer.
September 23, 2011 at 3:20 am
I’m not parroting you. I am trying to see if there’s any part of you left that is not a child.
You threw an insult at me a ERV. That was childish of you in my view. However I wanted to see if perhaps you had even a scintilla of reason behind it so I posted the same comment here. Your response tells me that you view your own words as only an insult. Fair enough. So then how should I respond, Franc? To your baby talk?
I quoted your own sensible and adult sounding criticism of someone else issuing baby talk to see how you’d react. I wondered if you could take your own criticism. You could not.
So let me ask you Franc. What level of respect do you think you currently deserve from me?
September 23, 2011 at 9:48 am
Get a job, asshole.
September 24, 2011 at 2:29 am
Since, apparently, you lack the maturity to respond, allow me to do it for you. So, how should I respond to the question that I posted regarding how I should respond? If you didn’t suffer from the mental diarrhea of a baby’s asshole, you would have done that yourself. I like to think that people are on my intellectual level, but, the fact is, you don’t have a glimmer of a hint of a clue because, judging from your mind map, your brain cartographer is a blind moron. As for how much respect you think you deserve from me at this particular temporal juncture, let me respond by asking how much respect do you think that I expect you to demand from me?
September 24, 2011 at 4:12 am
You’re not understanding me. Get off of the Internet, walk away from the computer, and go get a job.
September 24, 2011 at 11:00 am
Lord Byron, elsewhere you also write:
Now I know who remind me of – alt.syntax.tactical
I repeat, you have not earned the privilege to address me as an equal, let alone to lecture me. You may not be The Naked Emperor, but you have demoted yourself to his level and I no longer see any difference.
September 24, 2011 at 12:40 pm
“You’re not understanding me. Get off of the Internet, walk away from the computer, and go get a job.”
That is funny. +1
One downside of a recession is the amount of time numbskulls have on their hands; myself not included in that assessment of course.
On another note, I see that the zebra fish slayer is pumping Dawkins new book at nothoughtblogs.com… Must be trying to make up.
September 24, 2011 at 5:30 am
Why are you here, and why do you feel the need to have three separate accounts to post here?
No one asked for your respect here, you are full of straw men, logical fallacies, a lack of critical thinking, and you just react without comprehending. You seem to want nothing but to try and antagonise us into an argument, well it isn’t working. You are a troll. We have better things to do than to engage you in your desperate need for attention. You will be ignored by me from now on.
September 24, 2011 at 11:42 am
Why? He’s one of these folks that doesn’t believe he exists unless he (or she, let’s not forget girls can be just as pointlessly disruptive) posts irrelevant provocations in unmoderated user space and goads a response from others.
He/she does not seem to have any allegiance or goal, other than in this instance claiming to be anti-fembot. Nor does he/she appear to be from the baboon board – too articulate. Elsewhere he just shoots anything that moves. The speedy devolution to raw insult when response here is unsatisfactory… cry for help? “I’m bored, amuse me!”, “my life is so shallow I have nothing else to do”, take your pick.
September 24, 2011 at 12:19 pm
You threw an insult at me a ERV.
Indeed. And you will insist unwarranted no doubt.
This is funny. Anyone curious about the sheer level of noise this clown can generate chasing shadows and goading responses can see it here. Just search Posted by: DavidByron . It’s epic. In excess of 20,000 words and counting (102 posts, roughly 200 words average a pop). All of it nitpicking trivia.
September 23, 2011 at 4:40 pm
This is an outstanding post Franc. Highly, highly informative and how you managed to figure out the parallels to the extent you did is beyond me. But it all makes very good sense. There’s even the ‘not a real muslim’ and ‘gender traitor’!
From what I can tell, the “new humanists” calling any criticism islamophobia, and also putting the blame on “pre-existing racist or right-wing supremacists” plays itself out in India as well ! It all fell in place as I read your analysis (and the terrific pieces by Kenan and Raymond).
Spiritual Bedfellows: The Norway massacre and the Indian connection
http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/international/spiritual-bedfellows
PS: The URL behind ‘sunnah’ is off.
September 23, 2011 at 5:09 pm
Thanks. Fixed the link. The parallels are not that hard to see if you want to blow away the typhos. As I keep saying, all of this is rooted in the idea of slave revolt as Nietzsche formulated in On the Genealogy of Morality, and there is nothing complex about it –
It is evident in christianity, islamism, gender feminism, Farrakhan style race politics, you name it – basically, any losers with an axe to grind. The gays even did it for a while, but thankfully, they have mostly grown past it. And as I keep repeating as well, the simplest things are always the hardest to understand. Of course, the moment you raise the spectre of the N. man though, you are pretty much automatically a Nazi – it is difficult to explain all of this, but N. really nailed it.
September 24, 2011 at 6:33 am
Best post yet Franc. Keep it up.
November 28, 2011 at 11:22 pm
[…] the shame to human sexuality that was once the exclusive reserve of the religionists. More and more the gender fem-bots become indistinguishable from Iranian clerics – especially when it comes to self-justification. "Freethought" – FTB […]
November 30, 2011 at 4:00 am
How do you do that thing where a comment’s title goes to an article and the content is an excerpt surrounded by dots in square brackets? I’ve been seeing everyone do this these days. Or, maybe, does it happen automatically when you use a trackback url?
July 23, 2012 at 11:25 pm
[…] https://greylining.com/2011/09/22/the-conjoined-twins-of-gender-feminism-and-islamism/ Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like this. « The polarisation of views regarding sexism in scepticism. | […]
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